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Author Topic: 3.67 Hotchkiss Base Cup  (Read 8635 times)

Lowcountry83

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3.67 Hotchkiss Base Cup
« on: February 06, 2013, 12:28:17 AM »
Hey guys I'm looking for a 3.67 hotchkiss base cup. Type 2 with the flame grooves. Preferably cleaned with good patent info if possible. Simple enough right? Thanks.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2013, 02:56:50 PM by Lowcountry83 »

Pete George

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Re: 3.67 Hotchkiss Base Cup
« Reply #1 on: February 06, 2013, 03:26:42 AM »
  Not so simple. ;-)  There are several different lengths of Hotchkiss 3.67"-caliber base cups.

  Assuming you want it for putting onto a Hotchkiss nose, you'll need to figure out exactly which version of 3.67"-caliber Hotchkiss nose you've got, and then get the correct base cup matchup for your nose.

  Because the long-bodied 3.67"-caliber Hotchkiss projectiles made for use in a 20-pounder Parrott Rifle are so rare, I'll assume your Hotchkiss nose is the shorter version for a Rifled 6-pounder Smoothbore cannon.  Here's a list of the Hotchkiss varieties for that type of cannon.
Rifled 6-pounder, Bolt (none have flamegrooves)
R6p, wood timefuzed, without flamegrooves
R6p, wood timefuzed, with flamegrooves
R6p, solder timefuze, without flamegrooves
R6p, solder timefuze, with flamegrooves
R6p, brass timefuze, Common-shell (all have flamegrooves)
R6p, brass timefuze, Case-Shot (all have flamegrooves)
R6p, iron Percussion fuze (none have flamegrooves)
R6p, brass Percussion fuze (none have flamegrooves)

  On the above varieties, some have a very short base cup, or a longer one, and some have a rounded bottom, and some have a nearly-flat bottom.  Compare the photos in the Dickey-&-George book.

Regards,
Pete
« Last Edit: October 10, 2014, 09:12:12 PM by Pete George »

Lowcountry83

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Re: 3.67 Hotchkiss Base Cup
« Reply #2 on: February 06, 2013, 02:53:46 PM »
Thanks Pete. I forgot to mention I want one with flame grooves. My nose has the top blown off, so I don't know what kind of fuse it took. The base cup doesn't have to be a correct match, as I just want it for a desk display. Thanks again...

emike123

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Re: 3.67 Hotchkiss Base Cup
« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2013, 07:25:29 PM »
Odds are if the nose only is blown out, it was a case shot with a time fuse adapter.

Pete George

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Re: 3.67 Hotchkiss Base Cup
« Reply #4 on: February 06, 2013, 10:22:19 PM »
  That's what I was going to say, but Mike beat me to it.

  In both the 3" and 3.67"/3.8" calibers, the Hotchkiss Type 1 Case-Shot's nose had fairly thick sidewalls, which frequently resulted in only the tip of the nose blowing out (along with the case-shot balls).  That problem was "mostly" corrected in the Type 2 version, by making the nose's sidewalls thinner than before, along with the addition of flamegrooves, which further diminished the nose's resistance to bursting.

  Since your blown-out nose has flamegrooves, it sounds like yours is a Type 1 which was "retrofitted" with flamegrooves.  We know for certain that Mr. Hotchkiss did that to a quantity of some of his Type 1 shells which had been manufactured without flamegrooves.  The "retrofitted" grooves were added by grinding them into the nose's cast-iron body.  When Hotchkiss Type 2 shells were manufactured, the flamegrooves were cast in the the iron body.  The cast-in grooves are longer and wider than retrofitted grooves. 

Regards,
Pete
« Last Edit: October 10, 2014, 09:14:58 PM by Pete George »

Lowcountry83

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Re: 3.67 Hotchkiss Base Cup
« Reply #5 on: February 07, 2013, 06:39:27 PM »
Interesting info Pete. I didn't realize there were that many types... What would you say the ratio is between retrofitted type 1's and regular type 2's?
Stephen

Pete George

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Re: 3.67 Hotchkiss Base Cup
« Reply #6 on: February 07, 2013, 09:44:47 PM »
  Retrofitted Type 1 specimens are numerically rare in comparison to Type 2, because retrofitting was only done during a short "transition period" between production of the Type 1 and Type 2.

Regards,
Pete

Jine

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Re: 3.67 Hotchkiss Base Cup
« Reply #7 on: October 10, 2014, 08:32:07 PM »
Pete,

I stumbled across this over the weekend. I suppose those flame grooves appear cast, negating the possibility of this being a Type 1 from First Winchester?

"Let every man serve God daily, love one another, preserve your victuals, beware fire, and keep good company." -- Admiral Sir John Hawkins (1532-1595)

Pete George

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Re: 3.67 Hotchkiss Base Cup
« Reply #8 on: October 11, 2014, 01:13:15 PM »
  Jine, although that is a very good close-up photo, I need precise measurements of the flamegrooves to be able to tell you with CERTAINTY whether it is a Type 2 Hotchkiss Case-Shot or a Type 1 with "retrofitted" flamegrooves.

The following data applies ONLY to 3"-caliber Hotchkiss Case-Shot:
The Type 2 version's flamegrooves are approximately .5" wide and 2.55" long.
"Retrofiitted" grooves are approximately .35" wide and 2.35" long.

Regards,
Pete

John M. Brooke

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Re: 3.67 Hotchkiss Base Cup
« Reply #9 on: October 11, 2014, 09:23:28 PM »
Jine,

Next time I'm in Verona I'll stop by and get measurements for you  ;D

They also had a nice Hotchkiss in the case to the right as you walked in along with some WWII stuff.