Bullet and Shell Civil War Projectiles Forum

Author Topic: 24lb Shell help  (Read 9490 times)

6lbgun

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 226
  • If at first you don't Secede, try, try again.
    • Email
24lb Shell help
« on: July 12, 2012, 01:00:05 PM »
     I have a 24lb shell that I have a question about.  The hole for the wood fuse adapter is straight, with no taper.  The shell's surface is pitted, so the measurements given may not be right on but are very, very close.

Diameter  5.67"
Weight     16lbs 9oz
Wall thickness 1.5".
Fuse hole diameter .752" non tapered
  Thanks in advance for your help.


Pete,
     In the subject "Rev War Cannon Balls" you mentioned that you could determine whether a 12lb shell is a  polygonal by the weight  The gentleman that I bought mine off of said that it may be a poly.  The wood fuse adapter is present.  Any help would be appreciated.

Weight  8lbs  10.6oz  (+ or _  .1oz)

Thanks



   

CarlS

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2475
    • Email
Re: 24lb Shell help
« Reply #1 on: July 12, 2012, 01:31:10 PM »
6lbgun,

Are you sure the fuse hole is clean and devoid of rust and concretion?  Wood fuse shells are often disarmed by through the fuse hole and this can be done with a masonry bit that would leave a rather smooth and straight sided hole.  If it's a shell the fuse hole should be tapered.  I am at work so without any books but looking at the sizes and weights on the civilwarartillery.com website it is pretty close to what would be expected.  If you can post an image that would help too.
Best,
Carl

6lbgun

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 226
  • If at first you don't Secede, try, try again.
    • Email
Re: 24lb Shell help
« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2012, 04:30:20 PM »
Carl,
    The hole is not clean and has corrosion.  The corrosion is consistent through out the length of the hole.
Even with the corrosion I should still be able see a measurable difference between the top and bottom using inside gauges and a mic.
 My pic is to large to send.  Don't have a clue on how to fix that.
Thanks
Dan

CarlS

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2475
    • Email
Re: 24lb Shell help
« Reply #3 on: July 12, 2012, 11:20:56 PM »
Hello,

In a private email 6lbgun sent me a picture of his shell and indeed the fuse hole doesn't look to be filled with concretion, etc.   Iron looks in pretty good shape.  I am afraid I can't answer that one.

Best,
Carl

Pete George

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 711
    • Email
Re: 24lb Shell help
« Reply #4 on: July 14, 2012, 12:09:49 AM »
6lbgun wrote:
> Pete, in the subject "Rev War Cannon Balls" you mentioned that you could determine whether a 12lb shell is
> a polygonal by the weight.  The gentleman that I bought mine off of said that it may be a poly.  The wood
> fuse adapter is present.  Any help would be appreciated.  Weight  8lbs  10.6oz  (+ or _  .1oz)

  A shell's weight can be influenced by various factors, such as the presence or absence of a metal fuze, presence or partial or complete absence of its powder charge, and "Graphitization" or other types of corrosion.

  You said your wood-fuzed 12-pounder shell's fuze is present.  A wood fuze adds very little weight, but its presence can indicate that some or all of the bursting-charge is still inside the shell.  Has your shell been drilled and pressure-flushed for powder removal?  Also, is your shell heavily pitted, and is its iron body "Graphitized" at all?  The answers to those questions are important, because based on the weight info you posted, compared with the weight data I've compiled, your wood-fuzed 12-pounder is not a Polygonal Cavity shell, it is an ordinary Common-Shell (simple spherical cavity).

  By the way, please permit me make a small correction to what you said about your 24-pounder shell's wall thickness.  It cannot have 1.5-inch-thick walls.  If it did, it would weigh about 21 pounds, not the 16 pounds 9 ounces you reported.  Doing the math of your 24-pounder shell's diameter-to-weight ratio, its shell-wall thicknes is approximately .9-inch.  You must have meant the depth of its fuzehole is 1.5 inches.

  I think the answer to its non-tapered fuzehole is that it is from the Colonial era and/or it may be foreign-made.

Regards,
Pete
« Last Edit: July 14, 2012, 12:13:37 AM by Pete George »

6lbgun

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 226
  • If at first you don't Secede, try, try again.
    • Email
Re: 24lb Shell help
« Reply #5 on: July 14, 2012, 03:10:42 PM »
Pete,
    I stand corrected about the thickness of the shell.  I stated that the wood fuse adapter was present, not the fuse.  The adapter has a taper and does not appear to have been drilled.  The enterior is clean with no remains of powder.  I can see into the shell but not enough to see if it is a poly.  Since I have never looked into a poly shell, perhaps I am seeing enough of the enterior through the fuse adapter but am not aware of it.
    The shell is smooth with very little pitting, iron is solid.

Thank you
Dan

John D. Bartleson Jr.

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1786
    • Email
Re: 24lb Shell help
« Reply #6 on: July 14, 2012, 04:24:34 PM »
Dan,
   posted images mean alot on here with regard to getting answers.
If you go to www.Irfanview.com and download the free image viewer and install it, The "Image" toolbar will allow you to reduce/resize the image size to around 600 p;isels wide for use here on the Fourm. Besides that the software will view most know image, video and music files.  It is FREE.  with free updates.
Regards,
John

CarlS

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2475
    • Email
Re: 24lb Shell help
« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2012, 05:22:04 PM »
Hello,

I posted an image of 6lbgun's shell above.  It sounds like from Pete's and John's comments they don't see it.  Is it not visible?
« Last Edit: July 14, 2012, 05:23:06 PM by CWArtillery »
Best,
Carl

6lbgun

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 226
  • If at first you don't Secede, try, try again.
    • Email
Re: 24lb Shell help
« Reply #8 on: July 14, 2012, 05:43:50 PM »
John,
     Thanks for the tip on the pic program.  Here are two pics of the possible poly.
Dan

Carl,
     I think they may be refering to the 12lb not the 24lb.
Dan

John D. Bartleson Jr.

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1786
    • Email
Re: 24lb Shell help
« Reply #9 on: July 14, 2012, 06:09:22 PM »
Did you use the Irfanview software to reduce them?
In the top image I think I seethe letter "G"  or is it my low vision?
Will the fuse adapter come out? if so you should be able to run your finger in and feel any poly sides.
John

CarlS

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2475
    • Email
Re: 24lb Shell help
« Reply #10 on: July 14, 2012, 06:21:31 PM »
JOhn,

Ooops... you are right!
Best,
Carl

6lbgun

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 226
  • If at first you don't Secede, try, try again.
    • Email
Re: 24lb Shell help
« Reply #11 on: July 14, 2012, 07:19:20 PM »
John,

Yes, I used the Irfanview software that you sugested.  Thanks!
Yes, It is a G (Maybe a C?)
No, I haven't tried to pop the adapter out.  I don't want to destroy it.

Dan

John D. Bartleson Jr.

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1786
    • Email
Re: 24lb Shell help
« Reply #12 on: July 15, 2012, 10:05:28 AM »
Dan,
Perhaps a closeup of the letter might give Pete an opportunity to comment.
Since you are already in the doghouse try putting your shell in the freezer for a while it might make the wood contract enough to allow you to remove it.  Can't hurt it.
Regards,
John

6lbgun

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 226
  • If at first you don't Secede, try, try again.
    • Email
Re: 24lb Shell help
« Reply #13 on: July 15, 2012, 07:19:52 PM »
John,

This as close as I can get.  The important area where the cerif would be on a G, has corrosion.  Probably a G.  Don't think sherical shells have been found with a Tredegar mark C.  Wonder what Mike thinks, got it off of him.
I'll try the freezer technique when I get a chance.

Thanks
Dan

emike123

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2348
    • Bullet and Shell
    • Email
Re: 24lb Shell help
« Reply #14 on: July 15, 2012, 07:50:27 PM »
Thats a nice cannon ball!

When you got it from us, and even now with all this magnification, I did (and still do) not see the "G" spot (pardon the double entendre). There appears to be something there, but it does not look like a typical Selma "G" for size, not having a cross hatch and most significantly, and finally the location seems a bit far removed from the fuse hole for your normal "G" marked shell.

I think you might be able to pry the wood fuse adapter free with a pen knife along the outside edge, but Pete has already answered that the weight is inconsistent with it being a polygonal so such efforts will most likely prove fruitless.  A polygonal would be a few ounces heavier, but the good news is it is almost certainly completely empty to be so light.