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Author Topic: Definitions  (Read 365 times)

Joe Walker

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Definitions
« on: August 05, 2019, 11:00:00 AM »
Is there a ready reference to ordinance facilities I can check out?  I have seen these terms for many years and I think I know a bit about them, but they seem to get muddy when trying to sort them out. Questions I have include: what they are, what they aren't, does artillery make a difference, and can any be combined?

 Arsenal, Laboratory, Ordinance Depot, Powder Mill, foundry, and Ordinance Bureau.

I see them used generically, and separately.  Thanks for your input.

Joe

CarlS

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Re: Definitions
« Reply #1 on: August 05, 2019, 11:44:54 AM »
The prolific researcher and publisher Dean Thomas produced a 3 volume set of books on Confederate depots, laboratories and the like mostly regarding the production of bullets for small arms but there was a good bit of overlap and thus a lot of artillery information is to be found.   I think the title is “Confederate Armories, Labratories and Ordnance Depots” but will confirm when I get home.  It may have these definitions in them.
Best,
Carl

CarlS

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Re: Definitions
« Reply #2 on: August 05, 2019, 12:13:53 PM »
Don't tell my boss I was doing this on company time but I did a quick search to find the books:
     http://www.horsesoldier.com/products/stock-items/books/11224
I was close on the title.  It is actually: CONFEDERATE ARSENALS, LABORATORIES AND ORDNANCE DEPOTS
Best,
Carl

Joe Walker

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Re: Definitions
« Reply #3 on: August 05, 2019, 01:48:11 PM »
Thanks, Carl.  I have these and a couple of others.  Actually, it was the three vol set that got me trying to sort out these descriptions.  I know that arsenals stored arms and also assembled/repaired some as well.  I assume that ammo of all types were there.  But how do they compare with the "Ordinance Depots"? Did that mean that ammo was stored there only and none manufactured/assembled there?.  I was wondering if such titles as "Laboratory" meant that all they made were cartridges.  Cartridge bundles were sometimes marked "arsenal", some "laboratory" and maybe some said "depot".  I found nothing in Thomas' books differentiating these nor a flow chart on how that got from assembly to the brigade. Perhaps I missed that and someone on this site will direct me to it.

BTW- interesting to note that all of Mallet's correspondence describes what I used to call "arsenal packs" as "bundles".


Thanks, Joe


Joe

jonpatterson

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Re: Definitions
« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2019, 12:24:23 AM »
From “The Civil War Dictionary by Mark M. Boatner III   page 17

The terms arsenal, armory, depot, and laboratory need definition. An arsenal is "a place of deposit for ordnance and ordnance stores," says Scott's Military Dictionary of 1861, "but there are also arsenals of construction and repairs." An armory, likewise, can be a place of manufacture or deposit, according to the same source. Subsequent military dictionaries, Wilhelm ( 1881), Garber and Bond (1936), bear out the synonymity of the words arsenal and armory. The official army dictionary of today (S.R. 320-5-1, 1950) says that an arsenal has the primary mission of manufacture but may also store and issue. The reader can therefore expect to find these terms used in various senses. An arsenal in the strictest sense was a depository which had under its supervision an armory (which did the manufacturing of arms), a laboratory ·(which made ammunition as well as setting standards and construction procedures), and a depot (which was located at some detached place and could have the missions of collection, repair, and issue of arms). "Some depots became arsenals and vice versa," say Albaugh and Simmons in their Confederate Arms, p. 76, which should be consulted for organization of the Confederate ordnance operations.

As far as Ordnance Bureau, the North had an “Ordnance Department” under the War Department while the South had an “Ordnance Bureau” (or actually a “Bureau of Ordnance “). For the CSA, the War Department was established by the Confederate Provisional Congress on February 26, 1861. It in turn had several sub-departments, including the “Bureau of Ordnance” established April 8, 1861.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2019, 12:55:46 AM by jonpatterson »
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Joe Walker

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Re: Definitions
« Reply #5 on: August 06, 2019, 06:05:19 AM »
Thanks for the info.  Your comments has got me headed in the right direction.

Joe

CarlS

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Re: Definitions
« Reply #6 on: August 11, 2019, 11:42:51 PM »
Thanks Jon. Great info!

One thought that crept into my thoughts were that a place might be named based on what the plans for it where but especially in times of war could take on duties of some other entity. 
Best,
Carl