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Author Topic: Story from the Vicksburg Siege: Possible or Not?  (Read 3907 times)

callicles

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Story from the Vicksburg Siege: Possible or Not?
« on: July 04, 2018, 06:57:48 PM »
Happy 4th everyone!

Bored today, so I found myself reading an article about the Siege of Vicksburg. In it was quoted an account from “My Cave Life in Vicksburg” about a death of a child playing with a shell found laying on the ground during the siege. The selected quote is below:

“A little negro child, playing in the yard, had found a shell; in rolling and turning it, had innocently pounded the fuse; the terrible explosion followed, showing, as the white cloud of smoke floated away, the mangled remains of a life that to the mother’s heart had possessed all of beauty and joy.”

The above quote is often repeated by people talking about the Siege as well. It seems I remember a park ranger (not sure, could’ve been a volunteer) at the Vicksburg park reference it.

Anyway, my private reaction has always been that this was unlikely. But then I reminded myself of how little I know about many type fuses. So, my question to the experts here is as follows:


Assuming that the eye-witness account is true and accurate, what type fuses from mid-1863 used by (US or Confederate) Army, or US navy, might explode by being “innocently pounded” by a child? 

Thanks guys, and I hope y’all don’t mind me asking the question that was born of my boredom....!!

svedra

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Re: Story from the Vicksburg Siege: Possible or Not?
« Reply #1 on: July 04, 2018, 07:52:04 PM »
I would imagine a girardey fuse for CS and perhaps the schenkl combo fuses for federal.

speedenforcer

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Re: Story from the Vicksburg Siege: Possible or Not?
« Reply #2 on: July 04, 2018, 08:32:32 PM »
Maybe a Tice fuse. Not sure when or where they were used. I THINK they are very rare.
It's not always "Survival of the fitest" sometimes the idiots get through.

Garret

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Re: Story from the Vicksburg Siege: Possible or Not?
« Reply #3 on: July 05, 2018, 01:02:21 AM »
Lots of Hotchkiss shells of various sizes with percussion and anvil percussion fuses are found at Vicksburg.  Wouldn't one of those explode if handled in the manner described?
"Suppose you were an idiot.  And suppose you were a member of Congress.  But I repeat myself."  Mark Twain

svedra

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Re: Story from the Vicksburg Siege: Possible or Not?
« Reply #4 on: July 05, 2018, 05:56:11 PM »
I think you are right garret. Fuse could have been faulty but only needed a nudge.

callicles

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Re: Story from the Vicksburg Siege: Possible or Not?
« Reply #5 on: July 05, 2018, 07:46:00 PM »
Interesting responses. I’ve only heard of the “garardy” fuse and combination fuses. I wondered, too, about the Tice. But were they around at Vicksburg?

As concerns Hotchkiss percussion. I don’t think banging on the anvil cap, or whatever it is called, would have caused an explosion. I think it involved an internal slider with a percussion cap. The internal slider would have to bang against the cap, something I don’t think would happen if someone just banged on the anvil cap from the outside. However, I’m only familiar with the more common Hotchkiss fuses. Maybe there were some different ones of which I’m unfamiliar.

Garret

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Re: Story from the Vicksburg Siege: Possible or Not?
« Reply #6 on: July 05, 2018, 11:06:34 PM »
This is from Jack Melton's site:

Percussion was the second most employed fuze system. These were designed to explode the projectile when the fuze made contact with an object. Most percussion fuzes employed a plunger-and-anvil method of detonation. The fuze body was usually brass, copper, or alloy, and was threaded so that it could be screwed into the nose of the projectile. When the fuze struck an object, a striker would slide forward down a chamber inside the fuze body and strike a percussion cap Parrott Percussion Fuze - Click to learn more (which was seated on a nipple) against the anvil. Employing the same principle as a musket, the percussion cap then exploded, sending a small flame through a hole in the nipple and igniting a powder train. The powder train transferred the flame to the powder chamber and detonated the projectile.

The common projectiles that employed the percussion fuze system are Parrott, Hotchkiss, Schenkl, and James.
"Suppose you were an idiot.  And suppose you were a member of Congress.  But I repeat myself."  Mark Twain

speedenforcer

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Re: Story from the Vicksburg Siege: Possible or Not?
« Reply #7 on: July 07, 2018, 10:45:29 AM »
The difference being the slider detonating the cap would be from inertia created by the speed of the shell and the sudden stop. Like being in a speeding car and you hit something, everything in the car is flying forward. Question is, would a child rolling the shell around cause enough speed for the slider to actually detonate the cap?
It's not always "Survival of the fitest" sometimes the idiots get through.

Selma Hunter

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Re: Story from the Vicksburg Siege: Possible or Not?
« Reply #8 on: July 07, 2018, 01:13:37 PM »
All,

The critical factor was that the source of ignition was a simple musket cap charged with mercury fulminate.  You should all know how little impact was/is required to set one off.  It did not have to be moving that fast - it just needed enough motion to bring the cap into a sharp contact with the anvil.

FWIW

callicles

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Re: Story from the Vicksburg Siege: Possible or Not?
« Reply #9 on: July 07, 2018, 04:32:39 PM »
Thanks Selma Hunter. So, if the child had simply turned the shell upside down, allowing the slider to make contact with the anvil, that might be enough to cause the explosion?

Selma Hunter

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Re: Story from the Vicksburg Siege: Possible or Not?
« Reply #10 on: July 08, 2018, 07:24:35 AM »
Yes Sir.  That's all it would take.  My good friend showed me a demonstration using a safety pinned Archer fuse and a welding glove.  This is one used to explain period ordnance.  Using a repro fuse, first cap the empty slider, screw in the "keeper" and when ready remove the safety pin and tap the head of the fuse on a table top.  The results can be impressive.  As with all pyrotechnics, don't even think about trying this unless you know exactly what you are doing.  The slider is effectively a single shot derringer and can discharge gas and small particles through the communications vent in the keeper.

PS, do this with the hand that has the welders glove!

speedenforcer

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Re: Story from the Vicksburg Siege: Possible or Not?
« Reply #11 on: July 08, 2018, 07:45:52 AM »
We will have to agree to disagree. I don't think rolling the ball round would set it off. Now if the child picked it up and dropped it, different story.
It's not always "Survival of the fitest" sometimes the idiots get through.