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Author Topic: Mansfield recoveries  (Read 738 times)

emike123

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Mansfield recoveries
« on: May 13, 2018, 08:36:58 AM »
I brought 4 projectiles home from Mansfield for my collection, but I didn't get any of these from people selling at the show, rather they were picked up there for ease of transfer.  I didn't find any projectiles for my collection just wandering the show, but I thought I'd share some pics of my latest additions.

The first is an S&P stamped Read recovered at South Mountain.  S&P is for the Richmond firm Samson and Pae.


emike123

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Re: Mansfield recoveries
« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2018, 08:37:47 AM »
Pete, that one should look familiar to you as should this rifled 12pdr Tennessee sabot shell from Mechanicsville, VA:


emike123

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Re: Mansfield recoveries
« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2018, 08:43:17 AM »
Speaking of familiar, these 2 canister rounds are known to many forumites, but were reconstructed by Dave Gotter who lives near Mansfield.

The left one is for the 18pdr and is made of parts from Vicksburg, where there was only one 18pdr, the famous "Whistling Dick" cannon.  This one was discussed here before when it was incomplete and in parts.

The one on the right is a 24pdr made up of 100+ 1.05" balls.  This is not per regs which prescribed larger diameter shot, but we had one from Charleston like this.  I got it from Greg Craven and it was mostly complete but still in water.  It largely fell apart, but the wood sabot is being conserved now, and I look forward to someday pairing it with this round.


R. J. in LA

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Re: Mansfield recoveries
« Reply #3 on: May 14, 2018, 08:45:22 AM »
Nice additions Mike!

redbob

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Re: Mansfield recoveries
« Reply #4 on: May 14, 2018, 10:24:26 AM »
As I suspected, the 18#er went to the right home and it would appear that Dave did his usual outstanding job.

Garret

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Re: Mansfield recoveries
« Reply #5 on: May 14, 2018, 05:53:39 PM »
Mike, nice additions.  I especially like the South Mountain shell.  Were there any good artillery to be had at the show on dealer's tables?
"Suppose you were an idiot.  And suppose you were a member of Congress.  But I repeat myself."  Mark Twain

CarlS

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Re: Mansfield recoveries
« Reply #6 on: May 16, 2018, 07:48:53 PM »
I got a good bit of non-rare artillery for resale at the show but only one item that I might keep.  As you can see it is a dug 12-lber canister with most of the tin still with it.  Condition is as dug.  What you can see missing is pretty much the extent of the missing tin.  The bottom side is nearly all there.  It is still in the traveling bed until I decide how best to conserve it and whether I'll keep it or not.  I have a great example of a dropped 12-lber reconstructed by Mr. Gotter that is already in my collection that I like a lot.
Best,
Carl

rommack

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Re: Mansfield recoveries
« Reply #7 on: May 17, 2018, 11:18:25 AM »
Nice Carl ! Do you know were it was dug or any history ? It looks like one I dug years ago but let get away from me !

CarlS

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Re: Mansfield recoveries
« Reply #8 on: May 22, 2018, 10:22:18 AM »
Somehow missed this one. There is no history on it.  Sadly it came from a collection that went to auction and the collector didnít keep any history that the family knew of after he died so nothing had any provenance.  So it very well was yours!  Iíll try to show it to you some time.   It would be great to ID the recovery location and the digger. 
Best,
Carl

emike123

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Re: Mansfield recoveries
« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2018, 12:36:32 PM »
Somebody told me about an S&P marked Read with a "Q" also stamped in it, so I more closely inspected the S&P stamped Read shown above that I got at Mansfield.  On the opposite side from the "S&P" stamp, under the lathe lug, is this "H"


Woodenhead

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Re: Mansfield recoveries
« Reply #10 on: June 24, 2018, 11:57:41 AM »
That is one of the best of all the marked CS 10 pdr. Read-Parrotts. I photographed it about 30 years ago at Pete's house. I believe he had gotten it from the digger. We know from the surviving invoices that Samson & Pae made a mold to produce their first copper fuse plugs in mid-July 1862 and began putting them in 10pdr. Read-Parrotts in early August 1862. (See the Aug. 1862 invoice pictured below.) I was wondering if your South Mtn. provenance could be accurate. The delivery date to the Richmond Arsenal listed below was Aug. 22, 1862, so they definitely could have been used in that Sept. 1862 fight. I thought the shell was dug at Chancellorsville. It is pictured in Lee's Thunderbolts. I'll try to post the page with additional discussion later.
Woodenhead

Woodenhead

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Re: Mansfield recoveries
« Reply #11 on: June 25, 2018, 09:01:27 AM »
I hope these pages are legible. I photo'ed your fine shell during the 1980s. I believe it was made during Nov.-Dec. 1862, or the start of 1863 at the latest. There are numerous documented S & P Read-Parrotts from that period stamped with letter "H". Your shell appears to have the hand-worked wrought iron sabot seen on all S & P 10 pounders prior to March 1863 when they began swedging superior sabots. When you compare yours with one of the later pattern, the difference is obvious. Also, is it possible your new 10 pdr. was actually made for a 3 inch CS Navy Parrott Rifle? S & P made about 600 of those slightly larger shells during Nov.-Dec. 1862, and it appears that most were marked with an "H".

If you can see these pages I've sent, note the second 10 pdr. with "S & P" stamped into the bearing surface. I purchased it recently from Nick Perrieut of Tenn. I believe this represents a new pattern in August 1862 based on drawings sent out by the Richmond Arsenal. This marked the beginning of the "sleeved" Parrotts. The recessed bottom was a kind of lubrication groove while the shorter bearing surface required less finishing. The other sleeved Parrotts show up at about this time.
Food for thought.
Woodenhead

Woodenhead

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Re: Mansfield recoveries
« Reply #12 on: June 25, 2018, 09:59:02 AM »
This page shows a Samson & Pae 10 pdr. identical to the "S&P" marked example shown previously. I photo'ed it I believe at a Memphis show I attended with Pete George during the late 1980s. It had recently been dug at Vicksburg along with a Virginia style side-loader Read-Parrott with copper fuze plug and recessed base. Based on exhaustive research, both shells had to be among about 1,000 CS 10 pounders the Richmond Arsenal sent to Vicksburg during mid-Nov. 1862. This was the only occasion I can find when quantities of Virginia shells were sent out of state. Usually it was the opposite. Every spring until the end of the war, the Rich. Arsenal was on record begging the Deep South arsenal for projectiles and fuzes. I suspect the sleeved shape of its body reflects new pattern drawings sent to the contractors in August 1862. Note the sabot does not appear to have been swedged as was the practice by early 1863.
WH