Bullet and Shell Civil War Projectiles Forum

Author Topic: Sumner Oscillating Bolt  (Read 7718 times)

speedenforcer

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Re: Sumner Oscillating Bolt
« Reply #15 on: February 04, 2018, 04:29:56 PM »
We know the following about them:
They've been found ONLY in the river at Milledgeville - no field-use is known ...nor even from a test-range.
They're found with CS shells - but so are the US 1880s friction-primers.
They'd fit a CS 2.25 Breechloader - but all the cannon-book authors know of no solid documentation that such a weapon existed.
There are two 2.24-inch US 1880s breechloading cannon models they'd fit.
A larger-caliber 1870s US breechloader-projectile is known (a pointed-nose short-bodied bolt) which has a square iron body under its band."





If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck. its probably a duck. That being said It's probably what Scott is suggesting in the quote above. Probably and 1880's era projectile.
It's not always "Survival of the fitest" sometimes the idiots get through.

Pete George

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Re: Sumner Oscillating Bolt
« Reply #16 on: February 04, 2018, 04:39:23 PM »
Jack Bell wrote:
> "Since all the ordnance that was recovered there was Confederate, I have always assumed it was both Civil War period and Confederate, but those are just assumptions with no documentation to back them up. "

  Jack, thought you'd want to know, you are mistaken that "all the Ordnance that was recovered there was Confederate." As has been mentioned previously in this discussion, postwar Ordnance has come from the river-dumping location a Milledgeville... specifically, more than just a few unused US Model-1896 cannon fiction primers, unfired .45-70 Springfield cartridges, and unfired .30-06 Springfield cartridges. Their presence strongly indicates Military Ordnance dumpings have occurred more than just once or twice at that location.

Regards,
Pete

Pete George

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Re: Sumner Oscillating Bolt
« Reply #17 on: February 04, 2018, 04:44:53 PM »
Okay, since posting a scan of the DuBose article would be a violation of the magazine's copyright, can somebody here who has access to the article please tell us whether or not it tells the caliber of the Sumner Oscillating cannon, and if so, quote the sentence or two where it tells the Sumner's caliber?

scottfromgeorgia

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Re: Sumner Oscillating Bolt
« Reply #18 on: February 11, 2018, 11:07:02 AM »
The Dubose papers are at the Atlanta Historical Center, and available to anyone who wants to read them. Here is the list of documents - many ordnance related.

Not saying that the answer to this mystery is in there, but it might be.

http://ahc.galileo.usg.edu/ahc/view?docId=ead/ahc.MSS1020-ead.xml&anchor.id=0#node.1


CarlS

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Re: Sumner Oscillating Bolt
« Reply #19 on: February 11, 2018, 04:31:55 PM »
It seems I remembers not too many years back that Jack Melton wrote an article for the NSTCW (I think?) on this projectile.  I did a search on nstcw.com but with no luck on finding the article.  Anyone else remember it?  It might have the reference info in it Pete is looking for.
Best,
Carl

scottfromgeorgia

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Re: Sumner Oscillating Bolt
« Reply #20 on: February 11, 2018, 05:02:45 PM »
Here is the reference published on Jack's site, http://www.civilwarartillery.com/manufacturers.htm:

Georgia Railroad Machine Shop:  Augusta, GA. - news article in the Columbus Daily Enquirer of August 31, 1861, announced that the mechanics at the above had built a "new styled cannon" called a Sumner Oscillating Breech Loading Rifled Gun.  It was manufactured from the crank axle of a railroad engine.  Other cannon were apparently made at the facility including some 2.25-inch breech loading rifles.  (Beverly M. Dubose, III, "The Manufacture of Confederate Ordnance in Georgia," the Atlanta Historical Bulletin (1967), 19).  There were two breech loading rifles made by the Georgia Railroad Machine shop and issued through the Atlanta Arsenal on January 28 and April 11.  The January 14 issue states however:  "Maker:  Rushton, Georgia Railroad, Atlanta, GA." 

scottfromgeorgia

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Re: Sumner Oscillating Bolt
« Reply #21 on: February 11, 2018, 05:06:54 PM »
Here is the full 1861 article, which can be found at https://scholarworks.uttyler.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?referer=https://www.google.com/&httpsredir=1&article=1013&context=cw_newstitles p 16

It references, not a bolt, but a "five pound conical ball."

DAILY CONSTITUTIONALIST [AUGUSTA, GA], August 29, 1861, p. 1, c. 2
A New Cannon.
We have hinted on one or two occasions within the past few weeks, at an enterprise going on in this city, which we denominated as “an addition to Sherman’s batter.”  We are now at
liberty to disclose the subject; and, through the courtesy of Mr. Hardeman, Master Machinist, and other gentlemen connected with the Georgia Railroad Machine Shop, to which we paid a visit this morning, we are enabled to make the following statement in reference to the enterprise to which we have alluded.  A new style cannon has been built by the mechanics of the Georgia Railroad Machine Shop, which embraces a new principle in gunnery.  It is the invention of Mr. Thos. Sumner, and is styled the Sumner Oscillating Breach-loading Rifled Gun.
It was manufactured from the crank axle of the first engine owned by the Georgia Railroad Company, and is finished in the most workmanlike manner.  It is to be arranged to fire with a fuse or cap, and carries a five pound conical ball.

We do not intend or desire to give a full description of this gun, as it may prove to be an invention of too much importance to be heralded abroad at the present time; but we presume that in a few weeks our citizens will have an opportunity of examining it for themselves, and seeing it tested.  In the meantime, it is to be sent to Atlanta for some purpose, and will be forwarded there to night.  It has been mounted on a neat and light carriage, and all the work about it reflects great credit upon those engaged in its construction.  Mr. Sumner has made application for a patent for this gun.  He has also invented a musket on the same principle, and is satisfied that old guns can be altered in accordance with it, so as to render them three times their original value.  Mr. Sumner has still another invention—a steam trip-hammer, which is in operation at the Machine shop, and is quite a novelty in its way.  This gentleman is certainly an acquisition to his employers, and will, we hope, be successful, in the highest degree, in the enterprises in which he is now engaged.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2018, 09:32:06 PM by CarlS »

scottfromgeorgia

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Re: Sumner Oscillating Bolt
« Reply #22 on: February 11, 2018, 05:12:13 PM »
An article from the same site mentioning Sumner in Nov 1861:

DAILY CONSTITUTIONALIST [AUGUSTA, GA], November 21, 1861, p. 3, c. 3
Georgia Arms.

Wright’s Legion, commanded by Hon. A. R. Wright, the Representative from the 10th Georgia Congressional District, arrived here a few evening’s since, and are encamped in the vicinity.  They number about a thousand men, and are all from the upper portion of the State.  They are a fine body of men, and their arms, in some respects, different from those
of any other command in the service. Some three companies, or perhaps more, are armed with pikes, a most formidable weapon for close quarters, and of Georgia invention.
Long blades of steel are inserted in a handle of wood some six feet in length, and are suddenly thrown out by pressure on a spring or trigger at the opposite end.  These blades or pikes are about two inches in width, and fifteen inches long.  The field pieces of the Legion are also worthy of note.  They consist of four beautiful rifled six pounders, three rifled twelve pounders, breech loading, with double chambers, and a rifled gun, mounted on wheels, with percussion attachments, and capable of throwing a ball with accuracy some four miles.
These pieces are all of Atlanta manufacture, and, except the first mentioned, the invention of Mr. W. Sumner, of the Georgia Railroad workshops.  The design and workmanship
are both admirable, and we expect great execution from them when brought into action under the control of the gallant men of the Legion.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2018, 09:32:38 PM by CarlS »

scottfromgeorgia

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Re: Sumner Oscillating Bolt
« Reply #23 on: February 11, 2018, 05:17:40 PM »
Another reference to the gun was published in the Daily Nashville Patriot in Aug 1861, but I cannot read it since you must for a subscription to access the newspapers:

Daily Nashville Patriot from Nashville, Tennessee on August 31, 1861 ...
https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/86539034/

Mr. Thomas Sumner, an employee in the Georgia Railroad Machine Shop, in this city, has invented an completed a rifled cannon, which we were kindly permitted to inspect this morning. To give anything like a detailed description of this gun, is beyond our power, but a pnet sKetcn oi us main peculiarities may be of interest.

scottfromgeorgia

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Re: Sumner Oscillating Bolt
« Reply #24 on: February 11, 2018, 05:22:01 PM »
While this gun seems to have been real, since these observers reported eye witness reports, there seems to be nothing at all connecting the gun with the little bolt found in the Oconee River.

CarlS

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Re: Sumner Oscillating Bolt
« Reply #25 on: February 11, 2018, 09:37:41 PM »
Excellent information Scott.  Great job at digging this up.  interesting that the date is 1861 at the start of hostilities.  You would think that if these bolts were for the Sumner gun some would have found their way into a caisson somewhere and been used at some point.  Perhaps the gun was used to guard some remote river access and any fired projectiles haven't been found...yet.
Best,
Carl

Jack Bell

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Re: Sumner Oscillating Bolt
« Reply #26 on: February 12, 2018, 02:16:57 PM »
Pete -Thanks for your comment about post-war ordnance being dumped at the same or a nearby site to the Civil War ordnance recovered. I was told by the people that recovered the CS projectiles that no Union projectiles were found there.
Was that statement regarding the CW projectiles accurate?  Thanks.

CarlS

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Re: Sumner Oscillating Bolt
« Reply #27 on: February 17, 2018, 02:53:49 PM »
Jack: Until Pete can reply with a more informed answer I will offer what I have experienced.  The shells I've seen from there that you can ID as US or CS have all been CS.  There are 6-lber solid shots from there that could be either.  Some have the sabots still on them and that could perhaps ID them as CS as well.  Maybe someone has one of those and can chime in.  The bolts in question aside, I know of no US or post-war projectiles from there.  As Pete said there has been post-ACW ordnance items such as friction primers from there as well as bullet casings. 
Best,
Carl

Pete George

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Re: Sumner Oscillating Bolt
« Reply #28 on: February 17, 2018, 03:50:11 PM »
Oops... sorry, answering Jack's simple question slipped my mind. Yes, insofar as I know, no civil war yankee artillery projectiles have been found at the Milledgeville river-dump. The jury is still out on the little lead-ringed bolts for a Breechloading Rifle, because the diameter of their lead bourrelets (2.23-to-2.25") is too small to effectively engage the rifling of a 2.25"-caliber rifled cannon, and nobody has found documentation of a Confederate cannon whose caliber the bolts would correctly fit.

As this discussion-thread has shown, there is no documentation which tells the Sumner Oscillating Breechloading Rifle's caliber... so saying the little Milledgeville bolts were made for use in the Sumner is an unjustifiable leap.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2018, 01:56:56 AM by Pete George »

Steve Phillips

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Re: Sumner Oscillating Bolt
« Reply #29 on: February 17, 2018, 04:51:56 PM »
I found one Yankee projectile there. It is a 2.6 inch Hotchkiss percussion. I was able to take the fuze apart. Most of what we found there was from Selma.