Bullet and Shell Civil War Projectiles Forum

Author Topic: unknown 8 pounder  (Read 3519 times)

speedenforcer

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unknown 8 pounder
« on: December 12, 2017, 06:05:42 PM »
I hope I am not infringing on any copyrights or violating and user agreements. Nor am I attempting cause suspicion an any relic dealer. I see On Nicks web site he has an 8 pound solid shot. said it came from an unknown cannon and only found at Shiloh. below is the written description. I highly respect Nick and have purchased from him in the past and will do so again. I am just curious about this solid shot, not a planned purchaser of it.

ART 1. Dug C.S. 8 lb. Solid Shot found near Shiloh, TN.

Crude ball with pitting on one side. This rare size (slightly larger than a 6 pound shot) is only found at Shiloh to my knowledge and comes from an unknown smoothbore. Dug by Ray Treece several years ago on private property near Shiloh TN.
It's not always "Survival of the fitest" sometimes the idiots get through.

relicrunner

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Re: unknown 8 pounder
« Reply #1 on: December 14, 2017, 11:43:25 AM »
A friend of mine bought a ball like this from Nick about 3 years ago. Did not get any definite opinion on what gun fired it but a suggestion was made that it could be part of a James hot shot. This one was supposedly found in a trash pit in the Shiloh area. It would be good to know the exact diameter.

Pete George

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Re: unknown 8 pounder
« Reply #2 on: December 14, 2017, 06:30:03 PM »
  It's important to report a few relevant historical facts on the subject of this so-called "8-pounder ball."

  In the following report, I use the term "gun" because it was the civil war artilleryman's term for a long-barreled Smoothbore cannon... for example, the Napoleon 12-pounder Gun. Terms for the shorter-barreled Smoothbore cannons were the Howitzer and the Mortar.

1- The 8-Pounder Gun was a French smoothbore cannon, from the Colonial Era. The British and Americans had no equivalent for it.

2- As some of you already know, the "Pounder" designation for a cannon is based on the weight of a Solid-Shot projectile for that cannon.  However, in the case of the 8-pounder gun, its Solid-Shot did NOT weigh eight British/American "Avoirdupois" pounds... it weighed eight French pounds. (I can't recall the French pound's exact name... I think it was the "livre.")  The French pound-weight was slightly heavier (1.097 pound) than our US/Brit Avoirdupois pound.
See the "DeValliere System," here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florent-Jean_de_Valli%C3%A8re
  So, France's 8-pounder Solid-Shot weighed about 8 pounds 13 ounces, just slightly less than a British/American 9-pounder Solid-Shot. An 8-pounder cannonball was about 4.05-inches in diameter, and the US/Brit 9-pounder ball was 4.10-inches.  The British army was delighted to discover that captured French 8-pounder cannonballs fit very nicely into Brit 9-pounder guns.

An additional heads-up, for RevWar cannonball collectors:
The American/British 12-pounder gun's bore diameter was 4.62-inches.
The French 12-pounder gun's bore diameter was 4.76-inches (121mm).

3- In four decades of civil war artillery study, I've never seen a report of an 8-pounder gun being used in the American civil war.  But, if one was used at Shiloh, its projectiles could be identified by being just .05-inch (1/20th-inch) smaller in diameter than Brit/US 9-pounder cannonballs (4.10-inches, according to the US 1861 Ordnance Manual's Shot Tables at:
 www.civilwarartillery.com/shottables.htm.
 And as I indicated above, the 8-pounder gun's Solid-Shot weighed about 8.8-to-8.9 American pounds.

4- According to the Shot Tables, there is no Grapeshot ball or Canister ball which is anywhere close to 8 or 9 pounds / 3.65-to-4.0-inches. Any Solid iron ball in that weight/size range is not an artillery ball... but instead, most likely is a rock-crusher/ore-crusher ball.

Speedenforcer, I second Relicrunner's suggestion... those Shiloh balls' precisely-measured diameter and very-exact weight (pounds & ounces) will tell us what they are, or aren't.

After-posting edit:
  I modified the previous version of the text above to include the precise diameter of an actual 8-pounder cannonball, which necessitated some modification of the text.

Regards,
Pete
« Last Edit: December 14, 2017, 11:18:36 PM by Pete George »

speedenforcer

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Re: unknown 8 pounder
« Reply #3 on: December 14, 2017, 08:59:06 PM »
That's what I was thinking. I knew if I posted you would come to the rescue and educate us. As always. Thank you sir.
It's not always "Survival of the fitest" sometimes the idiots get through.

Pete George

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Re: unknown 8 pounder
« Reply #4 on: December 14, 2017, 10:43:00 PM »
  As one of my Confederate ancestors would say, "I am pleased to be of service to this forum."  I must add, my service here is a pittance in comparison to the service rendered by you L.E.Os. and the other Uniformed Services. Thank you very much for it.

Best regards,
Pete
« Last Edit: December 14, 2017, 11:21:28 PM by Pete George »

speedenforcer

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Re: unknown 8 pounder
« Reply #5 on: December 15, 2017, 08:28:48 PM »
 :) Thank you Pete, That means more than you know. Its people like you that makes it worth while, and an honor to do so.
It's not always "Survival of the fitest" sometimes the idiots get through.