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Author Topic: Help (please) with a Civil War Bormann Fuze Cannonball...  (Read 9444 times)

davebleedsblue

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Help (please) with a Civil War Bormann Fuze Cannonball...
« on: August 11, 2017, 01:00:02 AM »
Images: http://imgur.com/a/RDaKo

I picked this up from a dealer today (owner was not there though) and had some questions if anyone can help. I sincerely appreciate it.  Here's what I know:

• Case shot w/Bormann Fuze
• Confederate Artillery round based on timing tick marks (looked this up online)
• 4.52 inches wide, which is consistent with being fired from a 12 pounder cannon
• Found on Secessionville Battlefield (June 16th, 1862) near Charleston SC

1) Is there any danger of it exploding?  The card said that there was no powder and only the case shot remained. When you move it slightly, you can hear the metal balls jangling around in there. I read that the powder was held in a space between the two halves with the balls, so since they're moving around... I'm hoping there's no powder?

2) Based on the case shot still being there, I assume this wasn't fired, but had a hole drilled to remove the powder. That's what it looks like anyway.  Is that correct based on what you see?

3) If it wasn't fired, is there a way this could've been fired as a solid shot without using the fuse?  Just wondering if there still a chance it was fired.

Thanks so much again for any help!
- Dave

speedenforcer

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Re: Help (please) with a Civil War Bormann Fuze Cannonball...
« Reply #1 on: August 11, 2017, 07:59:24 PM »
Yes it is safe. If powder was removed, no way it could explode. Even if the powder was still present, unless you go drilling on it or threw it in a fire, it would still be safe. Is the Bormann fuse punched that is to say have a punch hole on the face near a number, if so it was probably fired, if not it wasn't fired. Pete or Mike would know a lot more than I would but I really doubt that a exploding ball would be used as a solid shot. JMHO.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2017, 08:02:03 PM by speedenforcer »
It's not always "Survival of the fitest" sometimes the idiots get through.

speedenforcer

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Re: Help (please) with a Civil War Bormann Fuze Cannonball...
« Reply #2 on: August 11, 2017, 08:03:52 PM »
It having a drill hole and the shot still present has nothing to do with it being fire or unfired it simply means it didn't explode if it was fire. Live fired but non exploded and non fired are disarmed the same way.
It's not always "Survival of the fitest" sometimes the idiots get through.

davebleedsblue

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Re: Help (please) with a Civil War Bormann Fuze Cannonball...
« Reply #3 on: August 11, 2017, 08:16:17 PM »
Awesome - I feel safer now, haha.

Thanks so much for your time and reply!
- Dave

speedenforcer

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Re: Help (please) with a Civil War Bormann Fuze Cannonball...
« Reply #4 on: August 11, 2017, 08:21:13 PM »
That's why we are here. Check back often because I am sure you will get more replies.
It's not always "Survival of the fitest" sometimes the idiots get through.

davebleedsblue

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Re: Help (please) with a Civil War Bormann Fuze Cannonball...
« Reply #5 on: August 11, 2017, 08:34:59 PM »
Will do!
- Dave

Garret

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Re: Help (please) with a Civil War Bormann Fuze Cannonball...
« Reply #6 on: August 11, 2017, 11:36:33 PM »
Hi Dave, welcome to the forum. 
I agree with Speed.  There may be trace amounts of powder in it but not enough to cause an explosion.  In regards to whether or not it was fired, who knows.  I own a Federal 12 pounder ball with a Bormann braille fuse that was recovered by Mac Mason at Spotsylvania in 1975 in a Confederate Trench.  The fuse was unpunched.  Maybe it was fired as a solid shot?  The location of its recovery would suggest that it was.   I like to think it was fired as a solid shot.   ;D  It is a case shot just like yours, you can hear the balls rattling around, only thing the drill hole is on the bottom and not through the fuse. 

This sounds like your first artillery shell purchase.  If so, congratulations.  Collecting Civil War relics is a very educational and rewarding hobby. 
"Suppose you were an idiot.  And suppose you were a member of Congress.  But I repeat myself."  Mark Twain

CarlS

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Re: Help (please) with a Civil War Bormann Fuze Cannonball...
« Reply #7 on: August 12, 2017, 12:07:52 AM »
I will just say that a hole does not mean it has been disarmed.  It just means it was drilled.  You can take a big step in checking it by putting a small stick or rod (non-ferrous preferred) down the hole and making sure it finds a cavity nearly all the way though the shell.  That kind of oversimplifies it as every type of shell is different but you should get my point.

Too bad they drilled though the fuse.  That is a nice fuse.
Best,
Carl

davebleedsblue

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Re: Help (please) with a Civil War Bormann Fuze Cannonball...
« Reply #8 on: August 12, 2017, 12:36:12 AM »
I will just say that a hole does not mean it has been disarmed.  It just means it was drilled.  You can take a big step in checking it by putting a small stick or rod (non-ferrous preferred) down the hole and making sure it finds a cavity nearly all the way though the shell.  That kind of oversimplifies it as every type of shell is different but you should get my point.

Too bad they drilled though the fuse.  That is a nice fuse.

Thanks Carl I'll try that!
- Dave

davebleedsblue

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Re: Help (please) with a Civil War Bormann Fuze Cannonball...
« Reply #9 on: August 12, 2017, 12:37:09 AM »
Hi Dave, welcome to the forum. 
I agree with Speed.  There may be trace amounts of powder in it but not enough to cause an explosion.  In regards to whether or not it was fired, who knows.  I own a Federal 12 pounder ball with a Bormann braille fuse that was recovered by Mac Mason at Spotsylvania in 1975 in a Confederate Trench.  The fuse was unpunched.  Maybe it was fired as a solid shot?  The location of its recovery would suggest that it was.   I like to think it was fired as a solid shot.   ;D  It is a case shot just like yours, you can hear the balls rattling around, only thing the drill hole is on the bottom and not through the fuse. 

This sounds like your first artillery shell purchase.  If so, congratulations.  Collecting Civil War relics is a very educational and rewarding hobby.

Thanks so much. I'd like to think they threw it at an enemy soldier at least 😁
- Dave

speedenforcer

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Re: Help (please) with a Civil War Bormann Fuze Cannonball...
« Reply #10 on: August 12, 2017, 04:00:29 AM »
Yes Carl is right obviously, I never gave it much thought that someone would have taken the time to drill but not follow through with flushing. Carl has much more experience than I. Also 1 more question davebleedsblue, are you LEO?
It's not always "Survival of the fitest" sometimes the idiots get through.

divedigger

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Re: Help (please) with a Civil War Bormann Fuze Cannonball...
« Reply #11 on: August 12, 2017, 06:27:24 AM »
welcome to the forum, nice little ball. As to the question of using explosive shells as solid shot, yep they did if needed. On the last day of the bombardment of Fort Fisher,as the Union troops were about to invade the fort, the order was given to the Navy gunners to direct fire away from the point of the attack and not arm their shells so as not to endanger the invading troops.What they did was leave safety caps in place on the round balls, some round balls were fired with wooden shipping plugs instead of fuses,the Parrotts were fired with the anvil in the safe position so as not to detonate. So yes on occasion explosive shells were fired as solid shot

davebleedsblue

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Re: Help (please) with a Civil War Bormann Fuze Cannonball...
« Reply #12 on: August 12, 2017, 04:21:36 PM »
Yes Carl is right obviously, I never gave it much thought that someone would have taken the time to drill but not follow through with flushing. Carl has much more experience than I. Also 1 more question davebleedsblue, are you LEO?

What's LEO?
- Dave

davebleedsblue

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Re: Help (please) with a Civil War Bormann Fuze Cannonball...
« Reply #13 on: August 12, 2017, 04:23:00 PM »
welcome to the forum, nice little ball. As to the question of using explosive shells as solid shot, yep they did if needed. On the last day of the bombardment of Fort Fisher,as the Union troops were about to invade the fort, the order was given to the Navy gunners to direct fire away from the point of the attack and not arm their shells so as not to endanger the invading troops.What they did was leave safety caps in place on the round balls, some round balls were fired with wooden shipping plugs instead of fuses,the Parrotts were fired with the anvil in the safe position so as not to detonate. So yes on occasion explosive shells were fired as solid shot

Wow I learned something new! So cool. Thanks for replying!!
- Dave

jonpatterson

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Re: Help (please) with a Civil War Bormann Fuze Cannonball...
« Reply #14 on: August 12, 2017, 10:23:35 PM »
LEO = law enforcement officer
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