Bullet and Shell Civil War Projectiles Forum

Author Topic: Info Wanted  (Read 9364 times)

Pete George

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Re: Info Wanted
« Reply #15 on: September 22, 2015, 05:59:30 AM »
Answering John:
  The US Ordnance Department's acceptance of the 3-inch caliber Parrott Rifle happened in February 1864. That date gives us a starting-point for manufacture of projectiles for that caliber of Parrott Rifle.

  As the Dickey-&-George 1993 book also says on page 149, an explosive shell version of this bolt exists, whose fuzehole is crafted to accept Mr. Parrott's standard 1.12"-diameter Type One Percussion fuze. In addition to the sabot's 3-wide-grooves rifling, the fuzing confirms the projectile was made specifically for use in a 10-pounder Parrott Rifle.

  As page 149 mentions, the bolt's diameter is 2.88-inches.  That is wider than the diameter of early-war 10-pounder Parrott projectiles.  For example, Bormann-fuzed US Read-Parrot projectiles are 2.84"-diameter.  I know from personally measuring many Summer-of-1864 10-pounder Parrott shells that they tend to be 2.87/2.88"-diameter. So, to me, the page 149 bolt's 2.88"-diameter suggests 1864-or-later manufacture.

  Carl, what is the diameter of the bolt in your photos in this discussion?

  In regard to this lead-saboted bolt:
 When Mr. Parrott was developing projectiles for his Parrott Rifle in 1860/61, he discovered that lead sabots could not withstand the sudden additional torque from the "gaining-twist" rifling he preferred.  A few of the experimental lead-saboted Parrott projectiles he produced have survived. One is a lead-saboted 2.6"-caliber shell, shown on page 221 in the Dickey-&-George 1993 book.  I think a Heavy Caliber lead-saboted Parrott is in West Point's projectile collection. I do not recall whether or not that one is shown in the Kerkis-&-Dickey book on Heavy Artillery projectiles.  I should mention, I do not know if its ID at that time as a Parrott projectile is still valid.

 The "gaining-twist" rifling in Parrott Rifles is why Hotchkiss projectiles were unsuitable for use in those cannons.  However, a few were made, early in the war, as evidenced by having a wood-plug fuzehole. I should mention, it is known with certainty that some wooden-fuzed Hotchkiss shells were converted to use a threaded brass fuze.  I believe that was done to some wood-fuzehole "20-pounder" and "30-pounder" Hotchkiss shells.

I hope this information is helpful.

Regards,
Pete
« Last Edit: September 22, 2015, 06:17:22 AM by Pete George »

John D. Bartleson Jr.

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Re: Info Wanted
« Reply #16 on: September 22, 2015, 08:29:50 AM »
Pete,
So are you saying the shell posted here and in your book is in fact a Dyer pattern due to the method used
 to attached the sabot and is NOT a Parrot?
Regards,
John

Pete George

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Re: Info Wanted
« Reply #17 on: September 22, 2015, 09:44:00 AM »
Yes... although it is clearly intended to be used only in a 10-pounder Parrott Rifle, it appears to have been designed by A.B. Dyer, not Mr. Parrott.

Regards,
Pete
« Last Edit: September 22, 2015, 07:52:48 PM by Pete George »

John D. Bartleson Jr.

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Re: Info Wanted
« Reply #18 on: September 22, 2015, 10:41:15 AM »
Pete,
   Very good, we are still in tune.  Thank you for your comments.
Best Regards,
John

CarlS

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Re: Info Wanted
« Reply #19 on: September 22, 2015, 11:29:11 PM »
Pete,

Thanks for your thorough reply as always.  As mentioned in the opening posting the diameter of this Dyer projectile is 2.88 inches which is exactly what you indicated.

At one time I collected lead sabotted shells and owned one of the shell versions like you mention.  I sold it many years ago and now believe it to be in a friends collection.  As you say it had a fuse hole that would take the Parrott fuse.  That, the Parrott rifling on the sabot and its profile is why I always considered it to be a form of Parrott shell.  Not that I advocate it but it would be interesting to cut one in half to see the profile of the base that holds the sabot on.

Best,
Carl
Best,
Carl

Pete George

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Re: Info Wanted
« Reply #20 on: September 23, 2015, 06:26:28 AM »
  Yes, seeing its form beneath the sabot could tell us a lot. I wonder whether Bart still has any connections for getting a Radiograph done.

  Regarding the fuzehole... remember, we have a "precedent" for the use of Parrott fuzes in what is definitely a Dyer projectile. The 4.5" Dyer shells have the Parrott's Type 1 Percussion fuze or zinc timefuze-adapter in them.

Regards,
Pete

John D. Bartleson Jr.

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Re: Info Wanted
« Reply #21 on: September 23, 2015, 09:43:46 AM »
Pete,
No, I am afraid I have been away from my contacts, who have probably died by now.  I have been retired from the Navy for another tour- 30 years. They wouldn't even let me on base now.:)
Regards,
John aka Bart

Khk2921

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Re: Info Wanted
« Reply #22 on: June 24, 2018, 01:22:08 PM »
There  are some if these type shells and bolts in a cannon and  Carson I recovered  from the big black river  near  Vicksburg.