Bullet and Shell Civil War Projectiles Forum

Author Topic: Friction Quill Primer  (Read 7030 times)

6lbgun

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Friction Quill Primer
« on: August 01, 2014, 03:09:38 PM »
Looking for information on this friction quill primer.  I've seen it identified as US prewar, Confederate, and British.  Any help will be appreciated.  Thanks.
God Bless
Dan



Pete George

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Re: Friction Quill Primer
« Reply #1 on: August 03, 2014, 11:27:20 AM »
  I consider Bill Lockridge to be the top expert on quill primers. So, on your behalf, I asked him about yours. He replied that it is "of the English style."

Regards,
Pete

Selma Hunter

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Re: Friction Quill Primer
« Reply #2 on: August 05, 2014, 12:41:28 AM »
Pete,

Thanks for your most generous compliment.  I'm certain that there are numerous folks out there that are far more expert than I might ever be, but I am willing to engage on such questions.  The image shown here is taken from John A. Dahlgrens 1853 Ordnance Memoranda "Naval Percussion Locks & Primers, particularly those of the United States", Hart, Philadelphia.  The "stem" on the one 6lbgun has is longer than the image would indicate in the Dahlgren treatise but it is essentially the same.  If anyone has a nice one like that to sell or trade we might be able to work something out.

John D. Bartleson Jr.

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Re: Friction Quill Primer
« Reply #3 on: August 05, 2014, 04:50:23 PM »
Buill,
I have that refrence, what page is Dan's image on?
Bart

6lbgun

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Re: Friction Quill Primer
« Reply #4 on: August 05, 2014, 05:58:50 PM »
Thank you Pete, Bill, and Bart. 
Bart, the image is not in Dahlgren's book. 
The picture in the book and it's description in the text, definitely show and describe the top having a T configuration.  This leads me to believe that the one that I posted is either not British or the Brits change it's shape sometime after 1853.
Thanks
Dan

John D. Bartleson Jr.

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Re: Friction Quill Primer
« Reply #5 on: August 05, 2014, 09:53:55 PM »
Dan,
    I believe the text describes the top primer in Bill's attachment. I also believe the "T" configuration would provide a stronger bind by figure-eighting the waxed silk(was it silk), thereby preventing it being jerked out of the quill by the gunner.
Regards,
John

Selma Hunter

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Re: Friction Quill Primer
« Reply #6 on: August 06, 2014, 08:11:11 AM »
Gentlemen,

There seems to be some fundamental misunderstanding regarding both the name and the function of the "Quill" primer versus a "Friction" primer.

A quill primer is a percussive/concussive form of ignition.  It was struck by a lock (hammer) affixed to the gun.  The only lanyard used was tied to the lock mechanism - it remained tied to the lock until firing of the gun ceased and the lanyard/lock was stowed.  The explosive mixture employed was quite similar to others of the day - mealed musket powder, mercury fulminate and finely ground glass (preferably French leaded glass).  The quill part of the primer was made from the feathers of a fowl (one kind or another) with an outside diameter NGT .19 inch.  That dimension assured clearance into the .20 diameter vent, or Bouche, tube.  It was the impact of the hammer upon the quill which caused the quill primer to ignite in the vent.

A friction primer used a similar priming mixture but relied upon the travel of the twisted wire  to cause "friction" (hence the name) to ignite when the lanyard (which pulled completely free of anything connected to the tube) was pulled.  Again, Dahlgren's treatise makes all of this perfectly clear.

John D. Bartleson Jr.

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Re: Friction Quill Primer
« Reply #7 on: August 06, 2014, 09:12:27 AM »
Bill,
  I was referring to the top item  in your attachemnt. Is is not a friction primer?
John

Selma Hunter

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Re: Friction Quill Primer
« Reply #8 on: August 06, 2014, 11:38:06 AM »
Cuz,

No sir.  The attachment (a page from Dahlgren's treatise) depicts three different Quill Primers.

Sorry if I misundertood your posting.

VBR,

Bill

John D. Bartleson Jr.

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Re: Friction Quill Primer
« Reply #9 on: August 06, 2014, 12:48:36 PM »
Bill,
It is probably my misunderstanding. I assumed the top image in your attachment was a quill primer with a friction head on it.
John

joevann

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Re: Friction Quill Primer
« Reply #10 on: August 19, 2014, 12:52:49 PM »
"friction" quill primer?  Where is the friction wire or lanyard attachment?  It is definitely not U.S.

Selma Hunter

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Re: Friction Quill Primer
« Reply #11 on: August 19, 2014, 04:39:52 PM »
Joe,

Not sure I understand your posting.  Can you elaborate?

joevann

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Re: Friction Quill Primer
« Reply #12 on: August 19, 2014, 09:47:54 PM »
Friction quill primers, as used by the British (see attachment)  had a friction wire and a loop for a lanyard hook, the same as a metal friction primer.  The nail-shaped U.S. quill primers are percussion, rather than friction.  They used a fulminate wafer which was struck by the hammer of the cannon lock.  I suspect the one you have is also either percussion or lit by a portfire, but as to the Navy or country of origin, I have no idea.  I have never seen a quill that looked like this before.  We all know than quills were used by the Navy because the hot pieces of brass when a standard friction primer was used wasn't compatible with the close quarters of a gun deck or the sailors often bare feet.   It is known that standard army primers were often used.  On the gun deck of the USS Constitution, used metal friction primers are still embedded in the overhead of the gun deck.

Selma Hunter

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Re: Friction Quill Primer
« Reply #13 on: August 20, 2014, 08:16:51 AM »
Joe,

Please share the citation for the ordnance manual containing the "friction-quill" primer in your image.  Each day that comes along seems to offer more information on these fascinating devices.  Had you not shared the image I might have been stupid enough to debate the existance of such an intriguing example.  How foolish a thought given the unimpeachable source!

I have attached a photo of my modest collection of quill primers to show our forum members some of the variations noted in this thread.  Any/all of these could have been ignited by percussive means or by use of a portfire, match, etc.  Note the "loaded" Selma metallic example in my image.  It may well be unique as a loaded example.

Anyone having one of the "friction-quill" primers as shown in Joe's posting can "get it gone" with a short PM to yours truly.

Thanks for bringing yet another star into our constellation of knowledge.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2014, 08:18:30 AM by Selma Hunter »

joevann

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Re: Friction Quill Primer
« Reply #14 on: August 20, 2014, 11:03:58 AM »
"Treatise on Ammunition" 1877, London page 89