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News: Here, in the dread tribunal of last resort, valor contended against valor. Here brave men struggled & died for the right as God gave them to see the right. - Adlai Stevenson

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Artillery / Re: unknown 8 pounder
« Last post by speedenforcer on December 15, 2017, 08:28:48 PM »
 :) Thank you Pete, That means more than you know. Its people like you that makes it worth while, and an honor to do so.
Artillery / Re: 6lb Borman sideloader
« Last post by noonanda on December 15, 2017, 01:17:34 PM »
Well, did the switch from lead case-shot balls to iron case-shot balls (as mentioned in Pete’s previous post) also coincide with the South’s cease and desist order regarding the Bormann fuse? In other words, was the switch to iron balls codified in some order from the Confederate government like the one affecting the switch to the replacement fuses? Or was the switch to iron a gradual one based largely on availability? Maybe the two are intricately related somehow...
IIRC the change to Iron case shot happened in mid-summer 1862 didnt it? Cant remember where I read it (and I defer to the experts) but wasnt it after the 7 days battles due to a lead shortage?
They have a copy down there.  It is caught up in the bureaucracy that things go through these days.   In this case it is the process that is followed to get a book on the shelves at the parks.  Her reply was:

"Thank you for letting me know. The Park was provided a copy weeks ago and it is currently under review. All new publications have to undergo a review process. Unfortunately it won’t be a quick process though. I am working with Eastern National, the cooperating association who provides sales items for the park, to make it available. I had hoped to have it on sale there before Christmas but was told it will take a little time to make this happen. I visited the Park yesterday and was told it is in the works so I am hopeful that this will be resolved soon. "
Interesting.  I'll have to ask her what is up with that!
Miscellaneous / Re: Research help requested.
« Last post by jonpatterson on December 14, 2017, 11:55:45 PM »
Thanks David
Artillery / Re: unknown 8 pounder
« Last post by Pete George on December 14, 2017, 10:43:00 PM »
  As one of my Confederate ancestors would say, "I am pleased to be of service to this forum."  I must add, my service here is a pittance in comparison to the service rendered by you L.E.Os. and the other Uniformed Services. Thank you very much for it.

Best regards,
Artillery / Re: unknown 8 pounder
« Last post by speedenforcer on December 14, 2017, 08:59:06 PM »
That's what I was thinking. I knew if I posted you would come to the rescue and educate us. As always. Thank you sir.
Artillery / Re: unknown 8 pounder
« Last post by Pete George on December 14, 2017, 06:30:03 PM »
  It's important to report a few relevant historical facts on the subject of this so-called "8-pounder ball."

  In the following report, I use the term "gun" because it was the civil war artilleryman's term for a long-barreled Smoothbore cannon... for example, the Napoleon 12-pounder Gun. Terms for the shorter-barreled Smoothbore cannons were the Howitzer and the Mortar.

1- The 8-Pounder Gun was a French smoothbore cannon, from the Colonial Era. The British and Americans had no equivalent for it.

2- As some of you already know, the "Pounder" designation for a cannon is based on the weight of a Solid-Shot projectile for that cannon.  However, in the case of the 8-pounder gun, its Solid-Shot did NOT weigh eight British/American "Avoirdupois" pounds... it weighed eight French pounds. (I can't recall the French pound's exact name... I think it was the "livre.")  The French pound-weight was slightly heavier (1.097 pound) than our US/Brit Avoirdupois pound.
See the "DeValliere System," here:
  So, France's 8-pounder Solid-Shot weighed about 8 pounds 13 ounces, just slightly less than a British/American 9-pounder Solid-Shot. An 8-pounder cannonball was about 4.05-inches in diameter, and the US/Brit 9-pounder ball was 4.10-inches.  The British army was delighted to discover that captured French 8-pounder cannonballs fit very nicely into Brit 9-pounder guns.

An additional heads-up, for RevWar cannonball collectors:
The American/British 12-pounder gun's bore diameter was 4.62-inches.
The French 12-pounder gun's bore diameter was 4.76-inches (121mm).

3- In four decades of civil war artillery study, I've never seen a report of an 8-pounder gun being used in the American civil war.  But, if one was used at Shiloh, its projectiles could be identified by being just .05-inch (1/20th-inch) smaller in diameter than Brit/US 9-pounder cannonballs (4.10-inches, according to the US 1861 Ordnance Manual's Shot Tables at:
 And as I indicated above, the 8-pounder gun's Solid-Shot weighed about 8.8-to-8.9 American pounds.

4- According to the Shot Tables, there is no Grapeshot ball or Canister ball which is anywhere close to 8 or 9 pounds / 3.65-to-4.0-inches. Any Solid iron ball in that weight/size range is not an artillery ball... but instead, most likely is a rock-crusher/ore-crusher ball.

Speedenforcer, I second Relicrunner's suggestion... those Shiloh balls' precisely-measured diameter and very-exact weight (pounds & ounces) will tell us what they are, or aren't.

After-posting edit:
  I modified the previous version of the text above to include the precise diameter of an actual 8-pounder cannonball, which necessitated some modification of the text.

Artillery / Re: unknown 8 pounder
« Last post by relicrunner on December 14, 2017, 11:43:25 AM »
A friend of mine bought a ball like this from Nick about 3 years ago. Did not get any definite opinion on what gun fired it but a suggestion was made that it could be part of a James hot shot. This one was supposedly found in a trash pit in the Shiloh area. It would be good to know the exact diameter.
Miscellaneous / Re: Research help requested.
« Last post by dlw1610 on December 13, 2017, 04:02:24 PM »
Jon,  Francis A. Lord's Civil War Encyclopedia, Vol I, Appendix, although admittedly not complete, does not list this company as a Federal Contractor.
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