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News: Here, in the dread tribunal of last resort, valor contended against valor. Here brave men struggled & died for the right as God gave them to see the right. - Adlai Stevenson

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Artillery / Re: 3" Ord Rifle- 10 Lb Parrott projectiles
« Last post by relicrunner on Today at 04:19:43 PM »
I do have a Hotchkiss base/sabot frag that has 3L&G from being fired in a Parrott gun. Don't recall ever seeing a 10lb Parrott with ordnance rifling......
Artillery / Re: 3" Ord Rifle- 10 Lb Parrott projectiles
« Last post by redbob on Today at 07:27:56 AM »
I always thought that the reason that Parrott's went from 2.9" to 3" was to standardize ammunition.
Artillery / Re: 3" Ord Rifle- 10 Lb Parrott projectiles
« Last post by CarlS on Today at 01:29:32 AM »
Well Jay as it turns out I know not that of which I speak.  In my mind the Hotchkiss shells were about 8lb and the Parrotts 9lb and up.  I felt the added weight would put too much stress on the tube.  And while the Hotchkiss common shell is about 8.5 lbs the case is a bit over 9lb and the bolt is 10lbs or so.  As the Parrott case shot is 10lb to 11lb and the Parrott bolt 10.25lb the difference is not that great so it doesn't appear to me that stress is the factor that keeps Parrotts out of the Ordnance rifles.  So unless Parrott didn't allow his projectiles used in anything besides a Parrott gun then I don't know.  Any one else know?
General Discussion / Re: Forum activity
« Last post by speedenforcer on September 22, 2018, 01:20:14 PM »
Keep up the fight. put out a list of people we can call if you want we can bombard them with calls
Artillery / Re: 3" Ord Rifle- 10 Lb Parrott projectiles
« Last post by speedenforcer on September 22, 2018, 01:15:24 PM »
Carl, Please explain. Why would it be to heavy for the 3"rifle? if it would fit I would think it would work, Maybe not effectively or accurately but if the tolerances were the same, well? Im not an expert however.
Artillery / Re: Are powder bags attached to rifled Projectiles?
« Last post by Woodenhead on September 22, 2018, 12:11:27 PM »
This is a complicated matter. For the most part, spherical ammunition was fixed by North and South during the war. Rifled field ammunition was not supposed to be fixed. But there are many exceptions in the CS records as seen in the first invoice below where the Greensboro Depot in North Carolina is sending "198 shell for 3 inch Rifle gun fixed" to the Richmond Arsenal during January 1863. Note the also list "180 Burton charges." Of special interest to me after publishing several belt buckle books is the bottom line "337 Belt Plates tin." Oh yeah!

Basically, the prewar U.S, Ordnance Dept. wanted their rifled field caliber ammo "fixed." That would be the 3.80 inch James and the common 3 inch Dyers. You can see the groove at the bottom of the 'birdcage,' and the early 3 inch Dyers had crossed tin straps affixed to the bottom. Virginia's ordnance officers visited many of the U.S. arsenals in late 1860 and studied their products. When VA began arming itself for the coming troubles in Jan. 1861, they designed fixed rifle ammo for their growing accumulation of small rifled guns. As seen in the June 1861 list of state issues, below, even their 10 pdr. Parrott ammo was "fixed." When the CS Ordnance Dept. relocated to Richmond in mid-June 1861, the rifled field ammo was no longer fixed. This change can be visualized in the two pages from Lee's Thunderbolts, below, showing an earlier state-made 3 inch Burton shell (sorry, it not a long Archer. Burton and Tredegar's establishment had become blood enemies.) The second one, presumably made a month or two later, had its tie-ring groove filled in for use with a separate linen cartridge bag.
I hope this answers your question. I can show many more example and pertinent invoices.

Artillery / Re: Read Flame Grooves
« Last post by Woodenhead on September 22, 2018, 10:31:07 AM »
All of those you show were cast from the Snyder & Walker pattern. No Houston Arsenal's in your grouping above, although it is interesting that they also mistakenly put 3 grooves in their sabots. Only the first Reads made by S & W included cuts in the bottom bourrelets. Ironic that they soon figured out that those cut were unnecessary while keeping the 3 sabot grooves. Yes, some of the S & W Reads had countersunk fuze flanges. I've never found an explanation for this practice, but I suspect it had something to do with the introduction of the McEvoy igniters that sat on top of the shell. Snyder & Walker's 10 pounder Read-Parrott also was countersunk (see below). S & W's invoice below shows they made only 100 of these rarest of VA Read-Parrotts. I believe this was the only copper sabot 10 pdr. Parrott shell ever made in VA. Those found in VA came north from Georgia and Alabama. AS an interesting aside - Some of these Snyder & Walker projectiles might have ended up at Vicksburg or nearby sites. Just as many of these shells were being delivered to the Richmond Arsenal in November 1862, Richmond sent 2,000 3 inch Reads and 10 & 20 Read-Parrotts to Augusta for shipment to the Vicksburg theater.

Artillery / Re: Read Flame Grooves
« Last post by emike123 on September 22, 2018, 08:34:03 AM »
I was surprised how many I had in my little collection that apparently were made in this short time window.

Left to right:

1) Sideloader with a strange fuse adapter configuration.  The entire flange head of the fuse adapter is countersunk into the iron.  Maybe this is a reworked one like woodenhead describes.
2 & 3) Wood adaptered ones.  1 has cuts through bottom bourrelet and one doesn't
4) This may be the same shell woodenhead posted in his first response.  I would need to check but I may have gotten it from Keith
5) I think this is one of the Houston Read types if I recall correctly.  Obviously this is not the kind with the fine saw cuts in the sabot, but rather the cast 3 slots.
Artillery / Re: Read Flame Grooves
« Last post by emike123 on September 22, 2018, 08:25:38 AM »
Here are a few more with 3 flame grooves.
Artillery / Re: Read Flame Grooves
« Last post by Woodenhead on September 22, 2018, 06:58:16 AM »
Here are a few more examples. Remember, all were cast from the same mold pattern although they might appear different because some of the noses were cut down. The first page shown below with the long nose and wood fuze plug is what Carl's pictured shell looked like when it was fired the first time. The Snyder & Walker invoice shows the first 228 they made with wooden plugs. At $1.50 each, and the late delivery date, it is obvious someone else finished the fuze holes.
There's more!
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